TRUTH

“You shall not fall in with the many to do evil, nor shall you bear witness in a lawsuit, siding with the many, so as to pervert justice” - Exodus 23:2

Justice is perverted when people follow the crowd rather than carefully examining the situation at hand.

Instagram bans I Timothy 2:12

Ministry Posts 'Only Men May be Pastors,' Instagram Deletes It as 'Hate Speech'

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**11/12/2018**

Founders Ministries posted a screenshot of an article titled "Only Men May be Pastors" to their Instagram account, only to have Instagram delete the image Sunday as "hate speech" after reviewing it, threatening to disable the ministry's account if it happened again.

Hannah Ascol, who handles social media for Founders, described the incident to the Christian Daily Reporter Monday:

"We posted an article from one of our Founders board members Tom Hicks titled 'Only Men May Be Pastors' on November 7th. The post had gotten great engagement (our second best post engagement for this year) on our Instagram account. There was good discussion and agreement in the comments. Then Sunday evening, November 11, I got the notice that the post had been reported by a viewer, reviewed by Instagram and then deleted. The reason given was that the post 'doesn't follow our Community Guidelines on hate speech.' Included was a warning that if we violated the guidelines again then our account could be restricted or disabled."

She went on to confirm that the censored image was just a screenshot of the article title and photo (similar to how they post other new articles to their Instagram account), with the article's first sentence as the caption, reading "In spite of the fact that it seems more and more fashionable in our day to say that women may be pastors, the Bible is clear that pastoral leadership is restricted to men."

To Instagram, this standard complementarian position qualifies as hate speech.

Tom Ascol, Executive Director of Founders Ministries, took to Twitter Sunday night, saying "Big Brother can’t tolerate biblical truth in the marketplace of ideas," adding "Simply asserting what the Bible says is 'hate speech.' At some point everyone will be made to care."https://www.christiandailyreporter.com/instagram-hate-speech.html

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I would guess that a significant portion of regular TWW commenters would absolutely agree - sadly.

THE NAIVETE of the EGALITARIANS

"In my experience, the more egalitarian a person says he is, the more superior he wishes to be, or assumes he already is. Egalitarian sentiment is, and generally has been, a license for hypocrisy, double standards and exerting power over others. "  David Thompson

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It holds true in a marriage; there may be some ongoing give and take but in each duet - there's someone who has the greater will to rule.  And they will not share it if they think it counts.

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Sad fact of life:  Someone will always have the "whip hand."  If you question that; you obviously do not have the "whip hand."

DEB STEPS BACK - UPDATE: Where's the vaunted "open and transparent"

APPARENTLY, it's been coming for awhile.  One is always curious - Dee says it's not a health issue
 [ which almost guarantees it's a family issue ]. 

I've always perceived Dee to be the driving force; the Don Quixote of discernment blogs.  Deb seemed to be more along for the ride.

10 years of negative posts will do something to your psyche - and possibly your family and church.
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UPDATE;  TWW has always called upon churches/leaders to be OPEN AND TRANSPARENT.

Of course you'll not find it in the case of Deb stepping/down.

Ain't no openness nor transparency in the future.  TWW, like everybody else in the world, would like to keep some things to themselves.

DO NOT expect an open discussion of Deb and her situation.  They would like you to respect her privacy despite spending the last 10 years insisting that others did not deserve privacy.

Discernment blogs; only discerning others, never themselves.

Women pastors

https://www.christianpost.com/news/number-of-clergywomen-has-exponentially-increased-over-last-2-decades-study-says-227874/

The growth of women in the pastorate seems to have settled.

What you can't find is women planting/building churches.  

Wartburgwatch and other discernment blogs

HEIDELBERG CONFESSION

Q. What is the aim of the ninth commandment?

A. That I

never give false testimony against anyone,
twist no one’s words,
not gossip or slander,
nor join in condemning anyone
rashly or without a hearing.1

Rather, in court and everywhere else,
I should avoid lying and deceit of every kind;

these are the very devices the devil uses,
and they would call down on me God’s intense wrath.2

666 the Mark of the Beast

In the Book of Revelation, there is found the famous number - 666; and it is said without this number on your person, you will be restricted from economic activity.  To receive this number you must bow to the beast.

Growing up, I believed it but we could never really see how this might play out.  Now we know.

https://www.cnet.com/news/chip-implant-gets-cash-under-your-skin/

It is easy to see that in the future all commerce might be dependent upon a chip imbedded underneath your skin.  Without this chip, you could neither buy goods or services.

Yep, it's all coming into focus

Wartburgwatch despises Challies

Of course they despise Tim.

https://www.challies.com/articles/the-sins-forbidden-by-the-ninth-commandment-in-a-social-media-world/
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Challies doesn't reference them directly or even indirectly - but it fits their M.O.

WARTBURGWATCH commenters simply hate the church

"Considering the nonsense going on in the American church on various fronts, it’s clear that there is a dearth of logic and discernment. I’ve never seen such gullibility among God’s people – they have become so open-minded that their spiritual brains have fallen out."
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I'm no great historian, but if you paid any attention what-so-ever, you would know that the New Testament Church in Corinth was an absolute disaster.  There's nothing new

The fallibility of humanity is not new and yet the illiberal commenters at T.W.W. appear to believe only this generation of conservative Evangelical churches are more corrupt than have ever been.

Great job Deebs; you convince more and more people to hate their church.

Discernment indeed - sarc

Blog update

A)  I have zero followers

B)  I post periodically thereby guaranteeing I get little traffic

C)  On a good day, when I've been posting, I might get 30 readers.

D)  Yesterday, out of the blue, 160 people read the blog.  Does anybody know why?  I don't.

E)  I'm not out to change the world - as you might have surmised.

F)  I'm actually a fun guy to hang out with.

TWW BELIEVES IN EVIL - BUT NOT FOR THEMSELVES? [ Sometimes you wonder about the Deebs ]

Good and evil run through every human heart.   Solzhenitsyn

TWW continues to want to equate Catholic Church sexual abuse issues with Evangelicals - Update

Found on an extensive comment [ by Malcolm] on T.W.W. at the end of the comment

"c) Even in the absence of hard data, it seemed increasingly clear that, although clergy from every religious denomination have sexually violated children, no major denomination has had a problem of the scale that has plagued the Catholic church.” 

There are absolutely no Protestant equivalents, 

“ said Anson D. Shupe, a professor of sociology at Indiana University- Purdue University in Fort Wayne who researches clergy misconduct.” If I could find spectacular cases that would help my career, but I can’t. You don’t have rapacious serial predators, and the Protestant establishment doesn’t tolerate it the way the Catholic establishment has.”

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Deebs, you need to quit trying to equate the mess that is the Roman Catholic Church with conservative Evangelicals.

Any current or former SGM pastors accused of raping a child or adult?  Nary a one.

DID SGM handle some of the allegations poorly?  Yep [ as have other Evangelical Churches ] but they haven't held a candle to the sins of the Catholic Church.

No comparison Deebs.

A brief word of encouragement for the many victims out there - UPDATE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9vnuYqWRMo

When you forgive, you in no way change the past - but you sure do change the future. Bernard Meltzer

Adopting wife's last name

"In America today, many men tend to have the same hang-up about surrendering their last names, says Brian Powell, a professor of family and gender at Indiana University Bloomington who has studied attitudes toward marital name changes: They worry they’ll be seen as less of a man. And it seems they’re probably right. In a forthcoming study, Kristin Kelley, a doctoral student working with Powell, presented people with a series of hypothetical couples that had made different choices about their last name, and gauged the subjects’ reactions. She found that a woman’s keeping her last name or choosing to hyphenate changes how others view her relationship. “It increases the likelihood that others will think of the man as less dominant—as weaker in the household,” Powell says. “With any nontraditional name choice, the man’s status went down.” The social stigma a man would experience for changing his own last name at marriage, Powell told me, would likely be even greater."     Hot Air

Just a gentle reminder Deebs

“The easiest work in the world is to find fault.” 

Spurgeon

The comment Internet Monk decided they wouldn't allow to be posted.

Mike Bell, I think the word “ally” has proven problematic to me because I tend to associate it with giving approval to who the person is or what they are doing.  On the other hand, I’ve often felt a great deal of compassion for people who have found themselves in a destructive lifestyle, such as alcoholism, finding it very difficult to get out.  So I’m not an “ally” of alcoholism but I certainly can feel compassion for those people who appear to be almost born into it.

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R.S. Mccain posted a sad/painful story of a young lady and her attempts to make life work for her by denying her own femininity and gender..

http://theothermccain.com/2018/07/11/queer-feminist-update/

She has self described  as “queer” and “nonbinary” and used “they/them” pronouns.  She further self described as a “a sexy pink genderless fat orb.”   Now, she has decided that instead of hating men, she will become one herself - she now wants to “transition.”

McCain says she is “severely mentally ill.”

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I don’t want to call her mentally ill but, she’s headed down a road that will only continue and deeper her emotional and psychological pain.

If I was a work colleague, I would treat her very well; indeed I would go out of my way to be kind to her.  I have done that with others over the years - because I look down the road they are on and recognize the pain to come if they do not change courses; and changing course is not easy for people like this young girl.

Mike, I’m not sure how you would use “ally” in this very real scenario but if she asked me, I would tell her, out of compassion, that the direction she is choosing is only going to bring her great pain.  Is her lifestyle a threat to mine? Not at all. Do I have any reason to hate or despise her? Not at all.

I look at her as a lost soul very vulnerable to the latest cultural fads.  I’m pretty sure she has only the vaguest idea that there is a God and that she was created “imago dei” but is turning her back upon whom He created her to be.  There will continue to be no hope for her to ever experience peace or joy with her current choices.

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So I’m not sure about being an “ally” but I am sure she desperately needs wiser friends than the ones she has if they are encouraging her down her current path.

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God help her.

Women and the military - UPDATE

FYI

http://theothermccain.com/2018/06/17/tip-pentagon-covering-up-fact-that-female-officers-nearly-sank-navy-ship/

"In an 11-hour hearing, prosecutors painted a picture of Lt. Irian Woodley, the ship’s surface warfare coordinator, and Lt. Natalie Combs, the tactical action officer, as failing at their jobs, not using the tools at their disposal properly and not communicating adequately. They became complacent with faulty equipment and did not seek to get it fixed, and they failed to communicate with the bridge, the prosecution argued. Had they done those things, the government contended, they would have been able to avert the collision."

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What we don't know is whether these women were incompetent because they were incompetent or were they elevated to a position of responsibility based upon factors other than competence i.e. the fact that they were female in a Navy that feels the need to elevate female regardless of their competence.

Wartburgwatch smears Dr. Mohler as a racist. - UPDATE

Of course they do - smearing is in their DNA, we disagree with his view of Scripture, he must be a racist.
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TWW, if you try a little bit harder I'm sure you can compare him to Hitler too.
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UPDATE: Reading the 160 comments, very few supported the accusation that Dr. Mohler might be a racist.

Hooray for the commenters who, this time, did not jump on the Amen bandwagon.

Shame on T.W.W. for allowing this smear to be published.

SBC statement on abuse

The SBC’s Resolution on Abuse

by Denny Burk on June 13, 2018 in Christianity

Andrew Walker, Katie McCoy, and I co-authored a resolution “On Abuse” that was approved overwhelmingly by the Southern Baptist Convention yesterday. Much of the language that we submitted was based on CBMW’s statement on abuse, which was published last March. The final text of the resolution is below. Many thanks to the SBC’s resolutions committee for reporting this out to messengers for a vote. Read below:

ON ABUSE

WHEREAS, God has created every person—male and female—in His own image and with equal value and dignity (Genesis 1:26–27); and

WHEREAS, God abhors violence against the weak and defenseless and calls His people to defend the hurt and oppressed (Psalm 82:4), to stand for justice (Psalm 82:3; Proverbs 31:8–9), and to deliver victims of abuse from the hands of their oppressors (Proverbs 6:17; 24:10–12); and

WHEREAS, The Baptist Faith and Message says that “We should work to provide for the orphaned, the needy, the abused, the aged, the helpless, and the sick” (Article XV); and

WHEREAS, Abuse can be defined as any act or conscious failure to act resulting in imminent risk, serious injury, death, physical or emotional or sexual harm, or exploitation of another person; and

WHEREAS, Current cultural trends have opened the door for victims to voice courageously their plight and seek justice; and

WHEREAS, We deplore, apologize, and ask for forgiveness for failures to protect the abused, failures that have occurred in evangelical churches and ministries, including such failures within our own denomination; and

WHEREAS, God has designed marriage “to reveal the union between Christ and His church and to provide for the man and the woman in marriage the framework for intimate companionship” (The Baptist Faith and Message, Article XVIII); and

WHEREAS, Biblical headship blesses, honors, and protects wives and children and does not require them to submit to sin or to abuse (Ephesians 5:25–29; Colossians 3:18; 1 Peter 3:7; 5:3); and

WHEREAS, The biblical teaching on relationships between men and women neither supports nor fosters, but rather prevents and condemns, abuse (Mark 12:31; Romans 13:10; Ephesians 4:32); and

WHEREAS, God ordains civil government as His servant to us for good (Romans 13:4) and intends for us “to render loyal obedience thereto in all things not contrary to the revealed will of God” (The Baptist Faith and Message, Article XVII); and

WHEREAS, Abuse is not only a sin but is also a destructive evil that distorts and disrupts the marriage covenant and the entire family and is a hallmark of the devil which must not be tolerated in the Christian community; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Dallas, Texas, June 12–13, 2018, condemn all forms of abuse and repudiate with a unified voice all abusive behavior as unquestionably sinful and under the just condemnation of our Holy God; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we acknowledge that spousal abuse dishonors the marriage covenant and fundamentally blasphemes the relationship between Christ and the church; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we strongly urge abuse victims to contact civil authorities, separate from their abusers, and seek protection, care, and support from fellow Christians and civil authorities; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we extend compassion and support to all persons encountering the injustice of abuse, being careful to remind the abused that such injustice is undeserved and not a result of personal guilt or fault; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call on all persons perpetrating and enabling abuse to repent and to confess their sin to Jesus Christ and to church authorities and to confess their crimes to civil authorities; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we implore all persons to act decisively on matters of abuse, to intervene on behalf of the abused, to ensure their safety, to report allegations of abuse to civil authorities according to the laws of their state, and to pursue church discipline against impenitent abusers; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we encourage leaders in our churches and Southern Baptist Convention entities to be faithful examples, through their words and actions, and to speak against the sin of all forms of abuse; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call on pastors and ministry leaders to foster safe environments in which abused persons may both recognize the reprehensible nature of their abuse and reveal such abuse to pastors and ministry leaders in safety and expectation of being believed and protected; and be it further

RESOLVED, That church and ministry leaders have an obligation to implement policies and practices that protect against and confront any form of abuse; and be it finally

RESOLVED, That we uphold the dignity of all human beings as image-bearers of God and the responsibility of all Christians to seek the welfare of the abused.

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Do NOT believe the discernment blogs that say the SBC doesn't stand strongly and powerfully against abuse because they do.

COMMENTERS' ONGOING NEGATIVITY AT WARTBURG WATCH - UPDATE

It truly is so depression to read the comments at T.W.W.  The negativity and criticalness never, ever stops.  On the other hand, there is the wisdom of Dostoevsky.



Man only likes to count his troubles, but he does not count his joys. Fyodor Dostoevsky



If ever there was a joyless group, it is the denizens of T.W.W.
__________

A consistently negative poster, in my humble opinion added this to the conversation.

"I’ve traveled a similar path. …… Saved and baptized in 1976 …..l have experienced the changes, from the female point of view, of course. I haven’t pulled my membership yet, but I may before the end of this year."

Nance, here's my word of encouragement.  Don't wait until the end of the year to leave; do it now - and if you have friends at the church who feel the same way, encourage them to leave with you.  The church will be much less dysfunctional with the critical naysayers departed.

I'm serious Nance, don't return.

Wade Burleson; Hero of the anti-heroes

From SBCvoices - 

How to Destroy Good Men

"But no ministry is undermined and destroyed by Cantankerous Members, Exasperating Elders, or Difficult Deacons the way it is by fawning supporters who refuse to hold a man of God accountable. The most dangerous man is the one who is constantly affirmed, placed on a pedestal, never challenged, defended by his people no matter how wrong he is, and who is treated as divinity instead of a flawed servant of God."  [ Good article ]

TWW has made their reputation on attacking big name Evangelicals; there is no lack of loathing seen in their commenters as they attack John Piper, John MacArthur, Mark Dever, Al Mohler or any of the mega-church pastors.

HOWEVER, there has been 1 exception and that is Wade Burleson who has been quoted and lionized; a hero to T.W.W.

Wade is the anti-hero's hero. but I'm not sure his supporter can see the irony.

I don't know how many "fanboys" he has but the number of 'fangirls" appears to be immense.
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Possibly he could benefit from the crippled elder who is forever whispering in his ear; "Wade, you are not better than Paige, you are not better than Pressler, you're not even better than Gilyard. 
Beware Wade, Beware."

PAIGE PATTERSON UPDATE

https://www.lifezette.com/polizette/hold-on-theres-more-to-the-paige-patterson-story/

PROVERBS 18:17

New International Version
In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines.
New Living Translation
The first to speak in court sounds right--until the cross-examination begins.
English Standard Version
The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Paige Patterson fired.

SBCVoices has a number of articles.

SBC Leadership has listened and is acting.

https://jasonkallen.com/2018/05/on-the-dignity-of-women-and-the-holiness-of-ministers-a-resolution-submitted-to-the-2018-sbc-committee-on-resolutions/

Egalitarian "me too"

A Las Vegas teacher is facing a felony charge for allegedly planning a large-scale attack at a concert featuring the metal band Life of Agony earlier this month.

Newly released arrest records reveal 48-year-old physics instructor Leslie McGourty has been arrested for allegedly communicating detailed threats in a text conversation.

The friend reported McGourty to law enforcement on May 15, and provided officials with text messages from the teacher threatening to — quote — “poke a lot of holes in a lot of people.”

Students said they could tell she was dealing with personal issues in the classroom.  [ Doh ]

The 48-year-old went on to say she wanted to start a “Me Too” style movement to empower women to become serial killers.

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You just can't make this stuff up.

Missdaisy, feel free to comment.  😎

Memorial Day; remembering the wounds of Vietnam

Jimmy Webb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaMf6ydI-YI

What kind of discernment blog do you have?

Good article:

https://www.tms.edu/blog/wretched-art-loveless-discernment/

Hating on or loving Paige Patterson - UPDATE

Feminist blog titles it:
Paige Patterson removed from SWBT presidency.

On the other hand, SBC Voices says:
Paige Patterson has been made President Emeritus of SWBC, effective immediately.

Obviously both are correct.

Al Mohler

https://albertmohler.com/2018/05/23/wrath-god-poured-humiliation-southern-baptist-convention/
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UPDATE

TWW says: "Paige Patterson is laughing into his SBC catered root beer."

Oh right, he's been smeared by the feminist and yet he is laughing about having pulled a fast one despite his life being opened for all to see; including the warts.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he is not laughing.

Against the egalitarian narrative

In 2013, researchers from Washington University in St. Louis found that wives who out-earned their husbands "were more likely to suffer from insomnia and to use anti-anxiety medication." They also found that men who are out-earned by their wives "are more likely to use erectile dysfunction medication than their male breadwinner counterparts, even when this inequality is small."

Biblical Counselors statement on abuse

https://biblicalcounseling.com/2018/05/abuse/

Heath Lambert - President recounts some of his own experiences

"I have been the victim of physical abuse. I know what it is to have someone you love use size and strength to hurt you repeatedly. I know what it is to run through snow in bare feet to flee violence. I have heard the sound of gunshots from my mother’s gun, which were intended for me. It is a terrorizing feeling to return home from school day, after day, after day, and not know whether your mom is drunk and you’re in trouble, or whether she is gone and you’re fine—for a few hours. I would never want anyone to spend two seconds in the kind of fearful hell that I dwelt in for a decade."

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Of course this doesn't fit the Wartburgwatch narrative of  Biblical Counselors being soulless, self righteous and untrained fundamentalists.

If you are not discerning the Wartburgwatch narrative will lead you away from truth, not towards it.

SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR PETITIONS

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I DON'T SIGN 'EM.

I'm not a fan of groupthink as so bountifully exhibited in the commenters of Wartburgwatch.

The trajectory of denominations in the USA

https://ifphc.wordpress.com/2017/05/10/church-stats-1975-2015-charts-show-decline-of-mainline-protestants-and-growth-of-pentecostals/

Question of the day for progressive Christians

Would you rather be Mike Pence's wife, or Eric Schneiderman's girlfriend?
--------

Think carefully.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/four-women-accuse-new-yorks-attorney-general-of-physical-abuse

He was brutal - he is also a self proclaimed feminists.

Wade Burleson - feminist? - UPDATE

Wade is, and has been, a critic of Paige Patterson and his stance on women.  Wade would appear to appeal to a gentler, more open approach to women in ministry.

But I have a question; he is the senior pastor of a mega church.

Does anybody with a lick of sense think Wade doesn't run his church?
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Here's the deal ladies; there are a lot of men in leadership out there who give LIP SERVICE to women sharing leadership with men.  And a lot of these men truly believe they are egalitarians.
But I'm thinking, when push comes to shove,  Alpha males are gonna "alpha."  They may TELL YOU they want to share the power, but the reality?  Nope, Alphas are going to lead and rule.

[  BTW, it doesn't matter which denomination you are a part of; in even the most liberal denominations,  Alpha males are gonna alpha. ]
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WADE'S CHURCH STAFF PAGE:

http://www.emmanuelenid.org/index.php/about/meet-the-staff

Gentlemen; if Beth Moore can't convince you to live by the Billy Graham rules, nothing will. UPDATE

https://blog.lproof.org/2018/05/a-letter-to-my-brothers.html

_______"About a year ago I had an opportunity to meet a theologian I’d long respected. I’d read virtually every book he’d written. I’d looked so forward to getting to share a meal with him and talk theology. The instant I met him, he looked me up and down, smiled approvingly and said, “You are better looking than _________________________________.” He didn’t leave it blank. He filled it in with the name of another woman Bible teacher."

Another guilty, Christian misogynist [ and non HANDSOME ] male.  They/you must change according to Beth Moore.  



[Unless you are handsome and suave male, and you probably aren't - especially if you are a theologican] 
There is NO fix.  
None Zip Zero Nada.  It is part of the Adamic curse.

The best thing you can do is keep a nice, polite barrier between you and them.  That works 100 per cent of the time.

The theologian who met with Beth made a mistake.  He ignored the Billy Graham rules. He's paying the price.


SNL explains it well.

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sexual-harassment/2751966
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UPDATE:

Denny Burk, President of CMBW.ORG [ much despised by Wartburgwatch and their commenters ]  defends and upholds Beth Moore.

T.W.W. has much trouble "discerning" the good guys from the bad guys.  Denny Burk and his friends are the good guys Deebs.  You should recognize that.

http://www.dennyburk.com/loving-our-sisters-in-all-purity/

Contrary to Wartburg Watch - Submission is what it is.

Challies -

 I think the word “submit” may be quite similar. It’s a word some people really dislike, so instead of studying it and coming to a firm conclusion on its meaning, they choose not to believe in it at all.

I’m convinced we must have some doctrine of submission (it is, after all, right there in the Bible) but don’t think I’m alone in cringing a little bit when I hear the term “submit,” especially in the context of marriage. When I hear “wives, submit to your own husbands,” something happens in my mind or heart that I don’t really like. I feel this immediate little bit of shame or rebellion or something. Submission feels old-fashioned. It feels like the kind of thing I may want to explain away like, “I know it looks like it says ‘submit’ but it doesn’t really mean ‘submit’.” The problem is that it really does say “submit” and, as far as I can tell, really does mean it. There isn’t one Bible translation that disagrees. So we just need to tackle it head-on.

But what’s happening? Why do I feel that little bit of rebellion or shame when I hear the word “submit?” I think it’s proof that we as Christians are constantly battling worldliness. Worldliness is allowing our minds and hearts to be shaped by messages that come from outside the Bible. Remember Romans 12:2: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your minds.” Our minds are like Playdough and someone or something is always shaping them. Our lifelong battle is to ensure we are not being conformed to the thought-patterns of the world but are instead being transformed by the revelation of God. And in this area I think many Christians, myself included, have allowed worldliness to encroach just a little.

The worldly thinking that constantly creeps into our minds is that our value and our dignity as people comes from our function or role, from what we do relative to other people. The Bible says something different. Your value and your dignity do not come from what you do but from who you are. And who are you? You are the one creature in all the world made in God’s image! You do not gain value or dignity from your function, or your contribution, or your abilities. Your value and your dignity are intrinsic to you and equal to anyone else’s because you are made in the image of God.

Why is that important? Because a world that assigns value to function rebels against the idea of submission. It concludes that for a wife to submit to her husband means that she must have less value than her husband. This is false, but it’s so often there in our minds and hearts.

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Deebs do not believe wives are called to be submissive to their husbands.  It doesn't fit modern feminist narrative.

Another pastor steps down due to past sexual sins

T.W.W. highlight the resignation of Scottsdale church's pastor.

Due to the sinful nature of man and the current nature of the internet, there is probably no immediate end in sight for pastor's whose sexual past is less than perfect being exposed.

I think T.W.W. could probably highlight the sexual sins of at least 2 pastors a week.

They're already more popular than the National Enquirer I'm sure.
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You have to wonder if it will come back to bite them because the Deeb's husbands, sons, nephews, pastors and male friends all have more than their fair share of sins [ some sexual ] in the past.

It's one things to see the sins of people you don't know exposed; it's another when the sins of people you love are exposed.  It kinda changes the whole perspective on things.

T.W.W. unhappy with Willow Creek elders

At least 4 of them are women.

The Willow Creek Elders
Pam Orr
Connie Tameling
Lane Moyer
Missy Rasmussen
Phil Elworth
Verlyn Suderman
Michael Riddle
Warren Habib
Heather Larson

Apparently having women on the elder board doesn't guarantee you'll have leadership of which T.W.W. can give their official stamp of approval.

It's really not about supporting the victims; it's about attacking John Piper, Mark Dever, Lig Duncan

Who is Donald Macleod and why he is important to those of us in the United States.

Macleod has authored some books that have been referenced by the conservative Evangelicals who Wartburgwatch disdains.

So it's not about the victims/women, it's about the conservative Evangelical voices.

T.W.W. despises Tim Challies - and has for a long time.

Judah and his pregnant daughter-in-law - pregnant by Judah.  He says she must be burned until he finds out he's the father.  Then he rightly declares, she is more righteous than he.

https://www.challies.com/articles/bring-her-out-and-let-her-be-burned/
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We see other people’s sin so clearly and our own so opaquely. From a great distance and with the scantest information we can judge another person’s least transgression. 
 [ Discernment/Survivor blogs come to mind.] 

Yet we can rack our own hearts and minds and often barely come up with a single way we are anything less than perfect. What we see so well in others we simply do not see in ourselves.

We judge other people’s actions with the harshest of measures but treat our own with the softest.

We see other people’s sin as so serious and our own as so insignificant. We judge other people’s actions with the harshest of measures but treat our own with the softest. After all, we tend to grow fond of our sins, and especially those besetting sins. But all the while we hate the sins of others, and especially sins that annoy, harm, or inconvenience us.

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What puzzles me is that the self-righteous critics/commenters don't think God will call them to account.

Dear Commenters;  You should beware - I'm thinking.
That certainly applies to me too.

Try not to miss the forest for the trees Dee

"dee wrote:

I am going to say something that will probably cause an uproar. Willow Creek does not need Bill Hybels. Willow Creek does not need the current crop of leaders. Willow Creek does not need a *incredible* leader. Willow Creek needs Jesus and they need to let Him be in control."

I absolutely agree.

Neither does Jesus need Wartburgwatch: - can I have an "amen" Dee?  And yet you continue.

I don't think they are Neo-cals

GREENWOOD, Ind. – Authorities in Greenwood are at the scene of a disturbance at a temple.

Just before 3:00 p.m., multiple agencies were dispatched to the Gurdwara Sikh Temple, located in the 1000 block of S. Graham Rd., on the report of a large disturbance.

Police said 150 people were involved in a “brawl,” which led to 3-4 people receiving minor injuries. No weapons were recovered at the scene and no arrests were made.

The brawl reportedly resulted from an anticipated transition of leadership power. They said those in power did not want to step down.

"Sexual grooming"

Go to google, type in "sexual grooming definition" and you can read what I can read.

Dee, Deb, are you sure you wish to accuse [ or let your commenters/posters ] accuse Bill Hybels of sexual grooming? 

Hybels steps down - update

Chicago Trib

The Chicago Tribune examined allegations investigated by elders and other claims of inappropriate behavior by Hybels by interviewing current and former church members, elders and employees, as well as reviewing hundreds of emails and internal records.

The alleged behavior included suggestive comments, extended hugs, an unwanted kiss and invitations to hotel rooms. 

It also included an allegation of a prolonged consensual affair with a married woman who later said her claim about the affair was not true, the Tribune found.
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WILLOWCREEK STATEMENT

In recent times, I've been accused of many things I simply did not do. However, let me humbly acknowledge three things I have done.
First, my first response to some of these recent accusations was anger. I confess to feeling very angry these last few weeks as I watched harmful accusations fly around without accountability. I felt attacked and knew that my loved ones and this church family would be affected. I sincerely wish my initial response had been one of listening and humble reflection. If I could go back, I would have chosen to listen first, and then to seek to learn and understand. I apologize for a response that was defensive, instead of one that invited conversation and learning.
Secondly, I realize now that in certain settings and circumstances in the past I communicated things that were perceived in ways I did not intend, at times making people feel uncomfortable. I was blind to this dynamic for far too long. For that I'm very sorry.
Thirdly, I too often placed myself in situations that would have been far wiser to avoid. I was, at times, naive about the dynamics those situations created. I'm sorry for the lack of wisdom on my part. I commit to never putting myself in similar situations in the future.
Additionally, I want to acknowledge that anytime allegations like these are made, they must be received with great humility and gravity. I reaffirm to you that I have taken these allegations very seriously, as have our church's Elders. While some of the stories that have been told about me are misleading and others are entirely false, and while investigations have found no evidence of misconduct, I have been sobered by these accusations, and as I said earlier, I have invited the input of wise counselors, friends, and family members to help me engage in a process of humble reflection.   HYBELS

T.W.W. continues to hone in on the Hybels case

" Ending well - that's the challenge"

King David - case in point?
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OF NOTE:  She was let go in 2003.  That's 15 years ago. 
Memories not always accurate - even in real time to say nothing of a decade and 1/2 ago.

Wartburgwatch wants ANOTHER "independent investigation."

T.W.W. say the investigation of Willow Creek is NOT [ in their legal ? estimation ] truly independent.
They want investigation number TWO.

Here's the question, will ANOTHER investigation actually change anything?

Why don't we start another blog:  Willowcreek survivors comes to mind. [ sarc ]

Yeah, that's the ticket.  Another "discernment" blog allowing unhappy Christians through-out the blogosphere to pour out their unhappiness and dissatisfaction with the church in the comments section.

Deebs; where are you going with this.

Seriously

WARTBURG WATCH LOVES LAWSUITS

The Deebs have made their totally inevitable post about Frank Page;  former  CEO of SBC who has admitted to moral failure and has resigned; as is very appropriate.

Their major assault on Frank focuses on his unwillingness to establish an SBC database of sexual offenders.
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The Deebs muddy the waters.  On the one hand they say:

"Perhaps it should come as no surprise that pedophile database has never become a reality in the Southern Baptist Convention."  [ keyword being pedophile database ]

But then they write:
" central database with the names of Southern Baptist pastors who have been “credibly accused of, confessed to or been convicted of sexual abuse or harassment.” 

Come on Deebs: do you want a data base for pedophiles or do you want a database of pedophiles but also for all pastors who have engaged in "hanky-panky."  Which is it?
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THE DEVIL IS [ ALWAYS ] IN THE DETAILS.

1.  There is, of course, a national database of sex offenders.  If you're a convicted sex offender, you ARE ON THAT DATABASE.

2.  Establishing your own database of sinners is a LOSE-LOSE proposition.

3.  It absolutely guarantees that you will be sued, sooner or later, and will have to pay out the big bucks. [ Especially if "credibly accused" is your bar to establish guilt.  "Credibly accused" is not the same as proved guilty. ]

It is not enough to have a clerical worker and a computer to establish an SBC database.  It's gonna take a whole team including investigators, IT personnel and admin types and lawyers.  Regardless, being human, mistakes will be made - lawsuits will be filed.

PASTOR DAVID SMITH, who did commit adultery with the soprano section of his church choir will be confused with PASTOR DAVID SMITH who has been faithful to his wife for 35 years.
CAN you spell OOPS?

BUT there is an even bigger problem?  Let's say the SBC establishes the database, you're looking to  hire a worship team leader, check the database to see if there is anything on prospect "Bruce Mild-mannered."  The database doesn't recognize the name - he's clean.

NO DATABASE can guarantee that anybody is "clean."  So the church hires Bruce Mild-mannered.

6 months later they get a call from a mother at his last church who says, though she can't prove it, Bruce molested her teenage son and was forced to leave a previous church.

LAWSUIT:  Because the database SHOULD HAVE LISTED Bruce Mild-mannered but didn't.  You are sued for the sin of omission.
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So what is the real agenda here?   I have my ideas.