Friday, July 21, 2017

Can a woman shepherd a Church?

NONNA comment:
"Seneca: The link you provided doesn't prove the assertions of commentator 'Rick' as women being more dramatic and never coming to conclusions. All it does is address the differences between men's and women's leadership styles. No where in the link you provided are women denigrated as being incompetent in their ability to lead, as 'Rick' did. Differences in leadership styles and abilities are not proof that women are incapable of leading, only that they function differently than men. Further, there are several studies out there that arrive at conclusions contrary to the ones provided in your link. So I stand by my original comments. "

What is true; male leadership is more goal oriented.  Female leadership is more process oriented.  Almost inevitably, when you find a women in a senior leadership position, she was put there by a man.  They almost never got there on their own.  They maintain their leadership by the dint of male support.  Once powerful men quit supporting them, they are gone.
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As everybody is aware, starting about 50 years ago females begin to assume pastoral roles; primarily in the Mainline denominations.  At least part of it had to do with a decreasing number of men going through the Mainline seminaries and being willing to take positions as pastors in small churches that paid poorly.  Part of it had to do with ongoing march of feminism through the academic institutions.

Now the backstory: 
 I'm at this older downtown Mainline Church for a concert the other day.  The concert was not a part of the church program, it was simply being held at that venue.
 Before the music starts, this young, quite attractive [ 30? ] lady gets up and introduces herself as the pastor.  I had to smile/groan.  This church isn't going to make it for 3 reasons.

Here's my 3 points.
1]  I believe Scripture does not ever support women as shepherd/pastors/elders.  Encough said about that however.

PRACTICALLY
2]  Can a woman actually successfully shepherd a church full of men and women?  I would say no.

It's probably quite obvious, I'm not a male feminist, I think feminism is terrible for females.  
So, could I survive/thrive in a church that has called a female to shepherd me?  No - obviously not.  If a female pastor was voted in, I would exit.  

But then my next question is this. 
 Am I actually a significant outlier OR is the factual reality this;  generally men refuse to be shepherded by women if they have any choice.  
[  Obviously your job may requires that you work under a female - so be it.  Suck it up or find another job. ]

But a church is a volunteer organization where one does not have to attend and people come and go, church shop if you will, on a frequent basis.  If a woman is installed as pastor will men be more likely to drift away from the church and secondly, will a female pastor attract new male membership?

My gut feeling says a] men will drift away, b] new men will not be attracted but some will attend on an irregular basis - UNLESS THEY ACQUIRE POWER at which point they may stay.

Like numerous radical feminists; I believe you can't ever actually remove the masculinity from the man.  A guy can tell you all he wants that he's a feminist; but when push comes to shove he acts just like a typical male - wanting to be in charge.  Recent readings suggests a number of radical feminists actually LOATHE the supposed male feminists.
  
Back to the young attractive female pastor I saw the other night.  While I have NO first-hand knowledge; but knowing men and women I'd bet the farm that a man ACTUALLY HOLDS THE POWER in that church.  [  It might be divided between 2 men but young "Emily" does NOT hold the real power. ]  She will have to kow-tow to the power;  she desires process leadership; she will not be able to resist the "will to power" that men bring to the game.  

So a man or two will be the real power in the church and she will be subservient to them.  If she plays by their rules, she may hang on for years.  But in an eyeball to eyeball, mano-a-mano battle, she will be ill-equipped and will therefore lose - UNLESS other POWERFUL MEN arise and save her.  But then you're just trading one set of powerful males for another set of powerful males.

Bottomline - "Emily" is not going to be able to actually shepherd the men.  She will at best be the titular head, but the church will ultimately fail.

To be a successful pastor over the long haul, requires that you win significant battles with the powers that be.  Women are less equipped to win significant battles with men.
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FYI
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2017/07/21/unraveling-jane-sanders-burlington-college-legacy/486054001/

Wednesday, July 19, 2017

WARTBURG WATCH inadvertently described by a couple of its posters

1]  "  There’s also the Franklin Effect. (https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/10/05/the-benjamin-franklin-effect/#more-1459) When we treat someone badly [ think John Piper or Mark Dever], we justify it to ourselves internally by demonizing them, by creating for ourselves a belief that they are bad people who deserved it. Because otherwise, we would have to admit to our selves that we are not the good people that we believe ourselves to be, and doing that is harder than internal rationalizations.

2]
"the Groupthink Threshold where Groupthink locks in and all dissidents are Purged." 
T.W.W. doesn't allow dissidents to stay very long.

Tuesday, July 18, 2017

Male versus Female leading styles; yes they are different

Nonna has left a new comment on your post "Women rule?": 

It's interesting that this Rick fella wants to conclude that the reason there is so much "talk and drama" on that board and the reason they "never come to a conclusion" is due to women ruling. I don't know how many Christian forums or sites this fella has been on, but I've been on plenty. And I've noticed that drama and much talk and not arriving at conclusions is not a phenomenon restricted to females. In fact, I've participated on a few Calvinist sites where mainly the men comment. The drama, insults, lack of unity, and nonsensical banter abound without many women having to even contribute. 

I'm placing my bets on this: both women and men are guilty for such behavior. It isn't indicative of one particular sex at all, but a behavior common to the human race, i.e. - both males and females. 
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You lost your bet Nonna.  



http://www.genderintelligence.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/How-Men-and-Women-Lead-Differently.pdf

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Sidenote:  Dee has been asked to think about what she's commenting for the next two weeks before she's allowed to comment again.

Women rule?

Facebook comment -

Rick - "Women have a vital role in the church, however I am on a board now where women rule and there is so much talk and drama that we can never come to a conclusion about anything. The hours roll by with endless talk that runs in circles, usually about who said this about that. God had a reason for establishing an order in the church. Can we maybe acknowledge that God might know a thing or two about church organization?"

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http://churchformen.com/men-and-church/where-are-the-men/

Monday, July 17, 2017

UPDATE ON REPORTER GRETCHEN HAMMOND who has accused S.N.A.P. of fiscal misconduct

http://www.timesofisrael.com/chicago-dyke-march-story-cost-me-my-job-says-reporter/
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The article above has nothing to do with her complaints about S.N.A.P.

It does give a fuller picture of what kind of person she is.

As for S.N.A.P.  apparently their finances from 2016  around 495,000 dollars.  That's a goodly sum but does not implicate S.N.A.P. in fiscal misconduct.

T.W.W. - ambivalence about progressive Christianity

The Episcopal Church is NOT ambivalent about the historic faith [ they have rejected it ] and they are paying the price.


http://theaquilareport.com/episcopal-church-near-collapse/

[ from 5 years ago ]
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/opinion/sunday/douthat-can-liberal-christianity-be-saved.html

from Daniel Patrick Moynihan:
“Liberalism faltered when it turned out it could not cope with truth. . . The liberal project began to fail when it began to lie. That was the mid sixties…the rot set in and has continued since.”

Sunday, July 16, 2017

T.W.W. is pro lust?

John Piper is very guilty of one thing; spilling secrets.  Men lust.  He has experienced lust but no longer. His desire is for total marital fulfillment with his wife.

I'm guessing they have very lovely marital encounters; neither he nor his wife have experienced promiscuity by all accounts and he is very dedicated to her.  If you were a wife, wouldn't it be nice to know your husband has only eyes for your femininity?  I would think so,  but I'm not a wife.

I'm really not sure why T.W.W. would mock a Christian man for seeking to be free of lust and giving other husbands hope.

The temptations of the flesh are never ending are they not?  I think so.  Does God call us to fight the battle?  He surely does.
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Hooray for you John Piper.  You speak truth to a people who hate truth.


Prov 5:19

Avoid Immorality
18Let your fountain be blessed, And rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19As a loving hind and a graceful doe, Let her breasts satisfy you at all times;  
Be exhilarated always with her love. 20For why should you, my son, be exhilarated with an adulteress And embrace the bosom of a foreigner?…

[  BTW, they are breasts, not "tatas."]