WARTBURG WATCH LOVES LAWSUITS

The Deebs have made their totally inevitable post about Frank Page;  former  CEO of SBC who has admitted to moral failure and has resigned; as is very appropriate.

Their major assault on Frank focuses on his unwillingness to establish an SBC database of sexual offenders.
_______
The Deebs muddy the waters.  On the one hand they say:

"Perhaps it should come as no surprise that pedophile database has never become a reality in the Southern Baptist Convention."  [ keyword being pedophile database ]

But then they write:
" central database with the names of Southern Baptist pastors who have been “credibly accused of, confessed to or been convicted of sexual abuse or harassment.” 

Come on Deebs: do you want a data base for pedophiles or do you want a database of pedophiles but also for all pastors who have engaged in "hanky-panky."  Which is it?
____________

THE DEVIL IS [ ALWAYS ] IN THE DETAILS.

1.  There is, of course, a national database of sex offenders.  If you're a convicted sex offender, you ARE ON THAT DATABASE.

2.  Establishing your own database of sinners is a LOSE-LOSE proposition.

3.  It absolutely guarantees that you will be sued, sooner or later, and will have to pay out the big bucks. [ Especially if "credibly accused" is your bar to establish guilt.  "Credibly accused" is not the same as proved guilty. ]

It is not enough to have a clerical worker and a computer to establish an SBC database.  It's gonna take a whole team including investigators, IT personnel and admin types and lawyers.  Regardless, being human, mistakes will be made - lawsuits will be filed.

PASTOR DAVID SMITH, who did commit adultery with the soprano section of his church choir will be confused with PASTOR DAVID SMITH who has been faithful to his wife for 35 years.
CAN you spell OOPS?

BUT there is an even bigger problem?  Let's say the SBC establishes the database, you're looking to  hire a worship team leader, check the database to see if there is anything on prospect "Bruce Mild-mannered."  The database doesn't recognize the name - he's clean.

NO DATABASE can guarantee that anybody is "clean."  So the church hires Bruce Mild-mannered.

6 months later they get a call from a mother at his last church who says, though she can't prove it, Bruce molested her teenage son and was forced to leave a previous church.

LAWSUIT:  Because the database SHOULD HAVE LISTED Bruce Mild-mannered but didn't.  You are sued for the sin of omission.
___________

So what is the real agenda here?   I have my ideas.

Wartburgwatch posts their 1,000 article on C.J. Mahaney

DISCLAIMER; I've never actually counted but C.J.'s continued existence is a thorn in their feminist flesh.
______

One of the fascinating things about the hatred for Mahaney is:

Nobody, that I can see, has ever accused him of sexual misconduct.  There's no #metoo accusations against Mahaney.  Apparently he has been faithful to his wife over the decades.

Other Evangelicals that the Deebs despise include Al Mohler, Mark Dever,  Russell Moore and John Piper.

I can honestly say I've never heard a hint of sexual misconduct against any of these gentlemen but they are the most despised men on Wartburgwatch's list of "Evangelicals we hate."

On the other hand, I suspect we'll never read another article about the beloved feminist mega church pastor, Bill Hybels - regardless of his guilt or non-guilt about sexual misconduct.
____________-

Deebs?  Why would you despise faithful men?

T.W.W. relieved

Another well known Christian has fallen - resigned today.  More will come out in the next 48 hours.

T.W.W. undoubtedly relieved - turns the focus away from Bill Hybels. 

Willow Creek? - UPDATE, T.W.W. hated to write this post; they love Hybel's theology - feminist

Waiting to see if Dee and Deb will devote a post to Willow Creek.

If they do I'll update.
_________

UPDATE:

"But, I had a pit in my stomach because I knew I would have to discuss the Bill Hybels’ situation.
Willow Creek has championed women as pastors and elders so this is hard for me.
I am hoping that those who criticize this blog as being focused on Calvinists and issues of abuse of women will take note. This blog deals with it even when it is personally painful."

[  DEE actually admits, as she denies in the above paragraph, that TWW is focused on Calvinists as sources of abuse.  Hybels is no Calvinist - which upsets Dee no end.  Can't blame Hybels on toxic theology ]

Let me assure you, TWW remains committed to attacking conservative Evangelicals - dryly.  Hybels is just a bump in the road.

Now let's return to the sins of C.J. Mahaney - we're done with Hybels.

Wartburgwatch now a favorite of atheists?

In the current post about Sovereign Grace [ same old same old ]  a couple of atheists post and get support from [ alleged ] Christians who would rather hang with the atheists then churchians.

I think the atheists and unbelievers really like Wartburgwatch. 

Gives them ammo to despise devout [ but imperfect ] believers.

Then people like "Jack" who comments very frequently.

"I think my problem is that I was trying to make a “Christian” point as an Ex-Christian. It’s no surprise I sound like a Christian atheist. I’m not Christian and haven’t been for some time though I was raised a Christian."



Good job Wartburg

Investigate what?

Christianity Today has come out with their own suggestion that SGC undergo a thorough investigation.

[ C.T. has been in business decades.  I am sure they have some sexual allegations from their past.  How were they handled?  Can we have an open and transparent investigation about their past? ]
_______________

Here's my question:

Is the investigation to be about how SGM/SGC handled the reporting of sexual abuses that took place within their congregations? 
 [ They admit they could have done better,  C.T. itself notes that a lot of Christian organizations who faced the same issues in the 80's and 90's also struggled to find their way.]

Or is the investigation to be about if SGM/SGC had an authoritarian, heavy-handed leadership style during the Mahaney years?
[Carl Trueman's mediation organization looked at that issue a few years back.]

Which investigation would you like to see?
______

They also noted that Boz's business, G.R.A.C.E., might not be the organization you would call on if past disagreements with organizations that employed them are an indicator.

WartburgWatch - where everything is problematic

A different look:

https://www.mcgilldaily.com/2014/11/everything-problematic/

"People who belong to oppressed groups [ or are "victims" ] are just people, with thoughts ultimately as fallible as anyone else’s. They aren’t oracles who dispense eternal wisdom."

DEE acknowledges: Good rules don't guarantee the end of abuses

DEE said:   My point for now is this. It doesn’t matter if you attend the most doctrinally pure church with strict child protection policies, your kids are still at risk. Sadly, there is no policy or correct doctrine that can fully protect our children. That part is up to us. If you see something that bothers you, even the tiniest little bit, report it. The child you save may be your own.

Remember: Rules will not stop predators, merely slow them down.

_______

If you are a Biblical realist, like Jeremiah, you knew that already.  

Jeremiah 17:9-10 New International Version (NIV)

9 The heart is deceitful above all things
    and beyond cure.
    Who can understand it?

10 “I the Lord search the heart
    and examine the mind,
to reward each person according to their conduct,
    according to what their deeds deserve.”

FYI

Dee promises to point out the mote in John Piper's eye in her next post.

Was EVERYBODY scarred from attending an SGM Church?

Comment from another blog:

"Long, long time reader of this blog, but first time posting. My wife and I attended CLC for about nine years. Early on, we enjoyed the passionate teaching by CJ. But we never drank deeply from the kool-aid culture of (their definition of) submissive stay-at-home wives, homeschooling of kids, and 100% submission to care group leaders. We attended a care group, but never really fit in to the culture of the care group either. When certain teachings were brought forth at these care groups, I often questioned them and introduced passages that seemed to contradict what was being taught. That, of course, was not appreciated.

We sat with folded arms for a few weeks (or was it months?) in the mid 1990s when they imitated the Toronto and Brownsville rolling-on-the-floor, laughing sessions that they claimed were Spirit-led. That was soon followed by the dramatic turn to reformed theology. We sat through the reformed teachings for about a year and decided to politely leave. 

We met with one of the pastors, explained our reasons, and left on good terms. Never a regret about leaving. We actually remained friends with several couples that stayed at CLC for more than a decade after we left. Imagine that."

Having read the  { non } "discernment blogs" for a number of years; who knew you could simply leave an SGM Church without being shunned or experience eternal suffering from having attended there.  

Actually, it sound like any other denomination/church;  you attended and then you left.  No threats are made on your life,  the pastors don't stand up in the pulpit and denounce you;  your dog isn't killed, your house isn't egged and you may remain friends with one or two other people with whom you developed a bond.

Yet to read the blogs, they've always made it appears as if you had been scarred for life by your attendance at an SGM Church.

Apparently, all you ever had to do was leave.  Who knew?

SGM thought they had church pretty much exactly right.

Guess what, The Lutherans think that, the Methodists think that, the Roman Catholics think that, the Eastern Orthodox think that and the Southern Baptist think that.  SGM was never unique in thinking they were closer to the New Testament model.  ALL denominations believe they are closer to the truth.

And if you don't like your current Lutheran Church, leadership team, polity, politics or care group leader - you can leave.  People do it every week of the year in these United States.

So for those of you "victimized and scarred" by having attended an SGM Church, can you just take a big breath, put it in perspective and get on with your common, ordinary, everyday life?  You are NOT UNIQUE.

Has Rachel Denhollander been "weaponized.?"

In the internet mob era; blogs, such as T.W.W., are often searching for a convenient club with which to bash their perceived enemies.

Case in point; Brent Detwiler.  He was at one time one of the SGM apostles.  Then he fell out of favor and has appeared to make it his mission in life to destroy C.J. Mahaney as an act of vengeance 
[ my perception, not his.  I think his perception is he wants to spiritually correct Mahaney. ]

SGM survivors has given him a voice.  [ He has his own blog but soon discovered, after the initial stages, that it was unwise on his part to allow comments - too many people were very unhappy with him so he ceased allowing comments.]

At SGM,  he was "weaponized."  Everything he said against Mahaney has been quoted, many times. He became a very convenient club with which to bash Mahaney.

DO SGM survivors actually like or support Brent?  I don't think so, I doubt they really like him, it's more, he's a convenient assault weapon.

If he wasn't bashing C.J., would he be allowed to mingle with the survivors?  Probably not.  
__________

The much despised Doug Wilson [ not despised by me, mind you] has gently pointed out the possibility that Rachael Denhollander being used as a convenient club by others who's agenda is also to destroy C.J. Mahaney.

Here's the problem with Doug Wilson, he's much brighter than me and is able to apply quite astute insights into situations through his blog and writings.  
Me,?  call me Mister Cut 'n Paste.  I can generate up to 10 minutes of effort on any one post, after that I have to take a nap.

So, if you'd actually like to read the other side of T.W.W. and compare, here you are.  Doug has a formidable intellect and first hand experience with "Beloved Boz."   He upset Boz/GRACE so much they threatened to sue Doug.     

https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/rachael-denhollanders-accomplishment-mistake.html
________

BTW, I'm willing to serve as a totally impartial judge [ for a modest fee ] to get to the bottom of the accusations against SGM.

If Boz can do it?  I can do it.

LET"S GET REAL WARTBURGWATCH -

Rachael Denhollander takes scalp; says it was unnecessary for C.J. to step down from the Together conference [ after she sicced the internet mob on him] .

T.W.W. [ and others ] now call for independent investigation.
________________

HERE is the reality C.J. haters.

UNLESS he was found ABOSLUTELY GUILTY  of  everything he's ever been accused of doing, saying or thinking, the Internet Mob, as seen at Wartburgwatch, would NEVER BE SATISFIED.

If an independent investigation cleared him - you Mahaney haters - would that satisfy you?

OF COURSE NOT.

Think Jane Fonda - Hanoi Jane, who decades ago apologized for her stupid statement made as a 19 or 20 year old.

Has she ever been forgiven?   Heck No.

It's no win for C.J. and the hatred of the internet mob will continue 'til he dies and well after.

BTW, I was one of those for several decades who was determined to never let go of Jane Fonda's stupidity - but you know what.  I quit obsessing about it and Jane quite awhile back.  I no longer hold any resentment towards Jane Fonda.  I'm healthier that way.

T.W.W. despises Al Mohler - They shouldn't

Albert Mohler has served as the President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (SBTS) for over 25 years now. Here are 5 reasons to be thankful for him:

1. He has led SBTS to be the largest seminary in the world. According to the recent report (2017-2018) by the Association of Theological Schools (ATS), SBTS has passed Fuller Seminary, and is now the largest seminary in the world. A conservative, confessional, inerrancy-believing, complementarianism-teaching, gospel-preaching seminary is the largest seminary in the world; let that sink in. Our culture would have us to believe this isn’t possible. Yet, God has used Al Mohler to bring it to pass.  SBCVOICES

C.J. Mahaney - the Internet Mob so desires C.J. to do the perp walk.

He says:

"I am responsible, where necessary and appropriate, to defend myself and Sovereign Grace, and this I continue to do as I have for the last several years. Sovereign Grace churches are led by godly men and filled with good and godly people who love Christ and his gospel. So that there is no lack of clarity on this: I am innocent of the allegations that have been made against me personally, and the recent, public characterizations of Sovereign Grace as a whole are absolutely false. I categorically reject the suggestion that I have ever conspired to cover up sexual abuse or other wrong-doing. No one should interpret my withdrawal as an acknowledgment of guilt. I withdraw out of care for my friends and for the sake of this conference and the cause of Christ."

____________

It seems believable to me;  I wasn't there, you weren't there, Rachael wasn't there, Boz wasn't there and of course the precious Deebs weren't there either.

God actually knows the Absolute Truth down to the last detail.  No one else does.

It will ALL serve God's ultimate purposes.

FINALLY, I doubt one of God's purposes is for any of us to be a part of an internet mob.