Dissecting Wartburgwatch which presents itself as a blog dissecting Christian trends but dissects, mostly, conservative male Evangelicals who have a conservative view of Scripture. TWW has a progressive view of Scripture; i.e. a moderate feminist perspective. Lately, it is more and more about abusers [ men ] and victims, generally women. It is written by two women and the commenters are increasingly female.
They have a post about R.C. Sproul Jr., who has a severe alcohol problems by all accounts. Frankly, he's just one of many pastors/priests who have serious issues with alcohol abuse. So he's not on the radar because of his alcohol problems. No, he's on TWW's radar because his Daddy holds to and teaches, very influentially, the inerrancy of Scripture.
T.W.W. wishes to silence ALL conservative Evangelicals who teach the inerrancy of Scripture. You simply can't be a feminist and an inerrantist. It's that simple.
R.C. Sproul Sr., and his Evangelical friends, are destructive to the feminist narrative.
Therefore, attacking him through his family is an option because NOBODY dare question the feminist narrative.
Ah, the on-going compassion of T.W.W. [sarc]
Addendum - commenter Deborah Coan - who exhibits compassion
"Why do you feel it’s necessary to malign a godly servant like RC Sproul [ SR ] as if he is in some way responsible for his grown sons actions! He has been through enough pain without your unfounded accusations and threats even that if his son hurts someone it will be on his head . This is inexcusable and seriously hurts your credibility.
I’ve been a Ligonier for years . I watch RC continue to persevere through terrible physical pains preaching Gods word wearing an oxygen mask . Leave him alone! We all grieve over our grown children when they inflict pain on themselves and others knowing that most of the time our help is rejected."
DEBORAH, T.W.W. exists to attack men like R.C. Sr. - That's who they are.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4622098/Texas-prosecutor-finds-ex-day-care-owners-innocent-abuse.html The couple had been convicted in 1992 after therapists testified that they helped the three alleged victim recover memories of satanic rituals and sexual abuse suffered at the hands of the Kellers.
____________________ Over the past several years; many T.W.W. commenters have indicated their faith in secular therapists. Frankly, I'm not sure why.
A few representative comments: __________ Wow. These guys are such scam artists. Poor James didn’t get his bottom kissed.
If only people would one-day figure out the only reason these self-worshipping brats became Christians is to get their bottom’s thoroughly kissed and quick easy free money.
Basically, these men are demanding that we pay them to become their trapped, submissive, bottom-kissing, money-giving, slave-robots. 4. Must fawn all over the leaders of The Gospel Coalition. Wouldn’t The Antichrist breeze through their real criteria? (Especially the “Slick Deceiver” archetype of Antichrist…) The SBC Calvinist are courting these independent Calvinist groups because then they can have more Calvinist messengers every year at the SBC who vote for officers who appoint trustees and on and on. It's part of the "reformation" of the SBC. The NAMB plant Calvinist churches for the same reason. Every church gets I think a minimum of two messengers. And now you can see the Calvinists banding together to give "scholarships" to those who need help getting to the SBC. These men just turn my stomach! How are people so deceived by these charlatans? All I see in them is: $$$$$$ Grow by networking is the theme of the day in SBC. In an effort to reverse the downward trend in SBC numbers, they have partnered with various New Calvinist ministries – including Mahaney, Driscoll, and MacDonald. The SBC continues to dig a deeper hole – one they may never get out of. Seems like the only requirement for a church to be part of the SBC is the subjugation of women. __________ FYI - a bit of irony. I was officially banned from T.W.W. for my lack of compassion. The "lack of compassion" only applies to those who don't buy the whole feminist narrative at TWW. Otherwise, you can be as angry and attacking as you choose - as long as you're attacking the conservative Evangelicals. Then, "Katy bar the door." That's how T.W.W. rolls. _________ Do I think there are problem with MacDonald and Harvest? YES Do I think there are problems with T.W.W. ABSOLUTELY - What we have is the pot [ TWW ] calling the kettle [ MacDonald ] black.
""Among the smallest accredited Protestant seminaries in the nation are three Episcopal seminaries: Bexley Hall Seabury-Western Theological Seminary Federation with 17 full-time students enrolled, General Theological Seminary with 34 full-time students, and Episcopal Divinity School with 35 full-time students. IRD’s Jeffrey WaltonreportedEpiscopal Divinity School will no longer grant degrees after the coming academic school year. “A menu of recycled 1960s-era liberation theology themes garnished with radical sexuality and gender studies proved unappealing to prospective seminarians,”notedWalton.
Meanwhile, it’s two Cooperative Baptist Fellowship-associated seminaries that reveal another interesting contrast among evangelical institutions. Unlike the chart-topping conservative SBC-affiliated seminaries, the more liberal CBF-affiliated Baptist Theological Seminary of Richmond counted 42 full-time students and Baptist Seminary of Kentucky had only 31 full-time students in 2015-16.""
[ About the vote on the Alt-right. Unlike Wartburg fables, here's from a guy who was there. ] "Because I was there, I’ve been disappointed at some of the musings, pontifications, and even insinuations of those who weren’t there, including both secular media and armchair quarterbacks who were offering misinformed assessments. At no point and in no way was the resolutions committee being “soft” on the Alt-Right or other forms of white supremacy. At no point were Southern Baptists debating whether or not we ought to denounce these demonic impulses. At no point did Steve Gaines or anyone else force Southern Baptists to do something they didn’t want to do. At no point were Southern Baptists wringing their hands over how we would look in the media if we didn’t do something. At no point were we trying not to offend Trump voters—or any other voters, for that matter. None of that happened, and folks who suggest it did are either speaking out of ignorance or out of malicious intent, period." Per usual, the ladies of Wartburg more interested in their narrative than the truth. Come on ladies, you can do better [ as can your commenters.] "This is the bottom line: if you weren’t in the room where it happened, then you really don’t know. You are free to make whatever assumptions you wish, but please admit they are just that: assumptions, rather than informed commentary based on first-hand knowledge. And as you make those assumptions, give us the benefit of the doubt. It’s the Christ-like thing to do." Nathan Finn
In their post on the Young, Restless and reformed they end the post with this paragraph. "Dee and I have written extensively on most of these individuals and institutions that Collin Hansen praises. In a mere nine years, some dramatic changes have taken place in the Neo-Cal world. When will we ever learn to keep our focus on Christ alone?" Indeed ladies; as you accuse others of not keeping their focus on Christ alone your focus continues to be attacking conservative Evangelicals who hold to the inerrancy of Scripture. That is your focus on Christ alone? Pot, meet kettle.
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis has laid down an ultimatum to defiant Nigerian priests: lose your job if you don't obey me and your bishop.
Francis met June 8 at the Vatican with a delegation from the Ahiara diocese, where priests have been refusing to accept the 2012 appointment by the then pontiff, Benedict XVI, of the local bishop.
Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, reporting the pope's unusually harsh order, said Sunday that Francis was acting "for the good of the people of God" by threatening to suspend the priests from the ministry if they didn't pledge in a letter, by July 9, "total obedience" to Francis and accept Bishop Peter Okpaleke's appointment.
According to many TWW commenters, ONLY Neo-cals would be so authoritarian.
I wonder if Deebs will give this a post - probably not. It doesn't follow the narrative does it.
I do have to wonder Dee if, for a variety of reasons, the blog doesn't contribute to you stress levels which impacts your body's ability to fight off illness which brings fatigue and flare-ups of other physical issues. It may not be good for your health. Seriously.
I am sometimes amazed when I realize that God has placed me in circumstances that eventually result in a blog post. Today is no exception. I want to make one thing perfectly clear to the Calvinistas who will read this post with gritted teeth. If you claim to believe in a sovereign God, then you will need to ask why I, who writes a blog, was given this unique perspective by those who were one the "receiving end" of Davis' judgments. Also, since some of you subscribe to the total depravity of man, you will need to deal with the fact that even a much-admired pastor can be capable of misrepresenting a situation.
Dear Dee, in the sovereignty of God both good Kings and bad Kings serve His purposes. Both good blogs and bad blogs serve His purposes. You, blog author, serve God's purposes regardless of your intent.
As R.C. Sproul has pointed out, even EVIL serves God's purposes.
"One thing we know for sure is that evil does exist. It exists, if nowhere else, in us and in our behavior. We know that the force of evil is extraordinary and brings great pain and suffering into the world. We also know that God is sovereign over it and in His sovereignty will not allow evil to have the last word. Evil always and ever serves the ultimate best interest of God Himself. It is God in His goodness and in His sovereignty t has ordained the final conquest over evil and its riddance from His universe. In this redemption we find our rest and our joy — and until that time, we live in a fallen world." MANY Non Calvinist also hold to the sovereignty of God.
Roger Olson writes,
“Classical Arminianism goes far beyond belief in general providence to include affirmation of God’s intimate and direct involvement in every event of nature and history. The only thing the Arminian view of God’s sovereignty necessarily excludes is God’s authorship of sin and evil. Faithful followers of Arminius have always believed that God governs the entire universe and all of history. Nothing at all can happen without God’s permission, and many things are specifically and directly controlled and caused by God. Even sin and evil do not escape God’s providential governance in classical Arminian theology. God permits and limits them without willing or causing them.”3
BTW P.S., if you wish to see the Donner Pass of Christianity, do look closely at The Episcopal Church. It's not Evangelical churches that are dying out, it is the mainstream churches. The more liberal their theology, the faster their death spiral.
FYI, only if you're interested Written by a female Marine https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/2014/09/why-women-do-not-belong-us-infantry Attack on traditional marriage viewshttp://www.dennyburk.com/farmer-banned-from-selling-produce-at-market-because-of-his-views-on-marriage/ http://sbcvoices.com/5-reasons-to-be-thankful-for-paige-patterson-president-of-swbts/
[M]an ...is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. (1Corinthians 11:7-9) _________________ [ A nightmare of a verse in these feminist times, and yet there it is.
And by the way, for those of you upset with this verse; do remember your problem isn't actually with the messenger [ moi ] it's with the message. ]
In response to your claim this: "Wartburgwatch HATES shepherds - they will have no man in authority over them",
I am a 'Wartburger' of sorts who is Catholic to the backbone, and I can tell you that the Good Shepherd is Lord to Wartburgers all, and that, if you care to learn of the ancient Church, Our Lord is God, in the second Person of the Holy Trinity, True God; and also True Man.
I think your claim is not accurate. Please reconsider, because 'shepherds' who serve in Wartburger's Churches are SERVANTS and if they are 'leaders' it is in the way of their serving in accordance with the model given to them by Our Lord Himself.
A person's moral conscience cannot be over-ruled, nor would it be, by any true Servant of the Word. And so there is respect for the dignity of the human person among Wartburgers, in that they are people of moral conscience, yes. "
Here ya go Christiane - TWW respect for the dignity of human persons
I have wondered why Marky doesn’t go out and get a real job, like a real man, in the real world. What is real man Mark scared? Will the real world laugh at pompous blowhard Mark and tell him to lick their boots?
I don’t think any of the NeoCal boyz could work jobs in the real world. Nobody would tolerate them.
Not only that, the NeoCal Boyz couldn’t handle working with women who wouldn’t submit to them. Imagine one of these Boyz having a female boss. They would have conniptions and quit after the first day.
So Christiane? Will there be any rebuking of the above comment by Dee, Deb or other commenterrs? I'm thinking not. The bile and misandry [ dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men ] runs deep at TWW.
One of the feminist at T.W.W. is exceedingly anxious to suggest women can do war like men. She drags Old Testament Debra out as an exhibit. But just a side note; if you have to go back 2 millenia to find a woman warrior, you've got problems.
She also notes a Russian Sharpshooter from World War II who had a huge number of kills. What she doesn't mention is that there were 50 men with even more kills.
She notes a Chinese female taking a man down. Can you spell "outlier.:"
But David Frum of National Review posted this article today 5/40/3027
by DAVID FRENCH May 30, 2017 4:52 PM @DAVIDAFRENCH Like any sentient moral being, I was troubled by the number of Marines who were caught up in the so-called “Marines United” scandal sharing naked pictures of female Marines without their consent (I’d also have a problem with sharing the pictures even with consent.) But that scandal has absolutely nothing to do with the question of whether women should serve in the infantry, and integrating more women in the infantry is far more likely to impair fighting effectiveness than it is to create an enlightened Marine Corps. Yesterday, Vox ran a piece calling out the Marines for their “toxic masculinity” and used the Marines United scandal to highlight a different problem, the failure to effectively integrate women into all aspects of Marine operations. The reason for Marine resistance to women in the infantry? Macho culture. I’m not making this up: There’s a “toxic masculinity culture” in the Marine Corps, James Joyner, a professor at the Marine Command and Staff College, told me. That may be what is at the core of the women-in-infantry debate among Marine ranks: the identity crisis of a historically macho club now being forced to let in women. Now that the Marine Corps must allow women to serve in combat roles — and is putting out recruiting commercials highlighting that fact — it tears at the social fabric of the service. That has led many to act out, some anonymously, online. No, “at the core of the women-in-infantry” debate is the question of whether women can fight as effectively as men. They cannot. There is no serious argument that they can. In fact, the Marines studied the issue closely and found that mixed-gender infantry units seriously under-perform same-sex units. The results were devastating: The women weren’t slightly less capable than the men; they were PROFOUNDLY less capable. All-male units performed better in 93 of 134 categories evaluated, and there were “notable” differences in accuracy in “every individual weapons system.” Physically, the top 25th percentile of women overlapped with the bottom 25th percentile of men, and they possessed less anaerobic power, anaerobic capacity, and aerobic capacity than their male colleagues. Women undergoing entry-level infantry training were injured at “more than six times the rate of their male counterparts.” Indeed, as the Vox article notes, only four women currently serve in the Marine infantry. Only the tiniest number can pass through training that physically fit men pass as a matter of course. The women-in-infantry debate is the luxury of a society that hasn’t fought a large-scale ground war in generations, and a serious mixed-gender experiment wouldn’t survive first contact with a well-equipped and well-trained opposing force. That’s not macho culture. It’s truth. Life isn’t the movie Aliens, nor is it G.I. Jane, and there is nothing “toxic” about bowing to biological and psychological reality.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/448117/marines-can-treat-women-honorably-without-putting-them-infantry
John Piper is right - leave warring and policework to men. They are most equipped to succeed.
As a teenager, we had about thirty goats on our family farm. Besides work as organic mowers they proved to be superb examples of stubbornness and noncooperation. They regularly tried to escape the fence that kept them safe. Our voice instructions might as well have been spoken to the sprawling oak tree by the barn. Goats don’t do well at being pastored.
Sheep, on the other hand, listen to the voice of the shepherd and follow his lead. Several times in Central Asia, I’ve watched shepherds lead their sheep through busy streets and on roadways with open fields on either side. A self-respecting goat would have bolted! Not so with the sheep. They knew how to be pastored.
Admittedly, goats and sheep are animals. We’re not. We’re people created in the image of God with minds, reasoning powers, gifts, emotions, and wills. Yet we’re fallen people, so that every one of those wonderful aspects of God’s image has been negatively affected. The gospel reorders and restores God’s image in its beauty and power. But the finished product still awaits the day when we stand before Christ. Until such time, he has given pastors/elders to shepherd us toward spiritual maturity. As regenerate people covenanted together in a local church, what do we need in order to be pastored? Let’s consider six essentials to being pastored.
1. Willingly follow Christ’s design for his flock. Jesus called his followers, “little flock” (Luke 12:32). He identified himself as the Good Shepherd who laid down his life for the sheep (John 10:11). With the Shepherd-sheep image, Jesus told Peter, “Shepherd My sheep” (John 21:16). Peter took that same language to apply to his fellow elders: “Shepherd the flock of God among you” (1 Peter 5:2). Paul similarly told the Ephesian elders: “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood” (Acts 20:28). Jesus clearly set the pattern: shepherding sheep. Now it’s the responsibility for the elders to shepherd the flock and for the flock to gladly follow this pattern.
Sometimes that doesn’t happen because pastors neglect shepherding. But other times the flock dons stubbornness and pride as its clothing rather than humility and peace. Pastors can try their best but without the flock following Christ’s design their pastoring falters. Jesus set the pattern. The church must follow if it would identify with him.
2. Humbly submit to those appointed by the church who watch out for your souls. Hebrews 13:17 is plain: “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account.” Submitting to anyone goes against the natural bent toward self-autonomy. That’s why humility crowns a healthy congregation because it has learned to submit to those giving attention to soul-care. The failure at humble submission gives evidence of entrenched sin. One will not go far in persevering without learning to humbly submit to those who watch out for their spiritual health.
3. Hold the attitude that you’ve not arrived and so you value God’s means of grace in the journey. Even toward the end of his life, Paul declared that he hadn’t arrived but kept pressing on toward the prize of the call of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:7–16). But does that attitude characterize us? Have we listened to the preening voices telling us otherwise? How do we know if we’re embracing the same attitude that Paul commends? We value the means of grace that God gives for the journey until we do arrive in Christ’s presence. Chief among the means is the labor of pastors shepherding us in the Word. One who thinks he doesn’t need pastoring reveals a perilous attitude.
4. Maintain that God did not save you to go alone but to journey with the body, receiving its support, encouragement, example, exhortation, forgiveness, admonition, and multiplied contributions to your spiritual walk. That’s the essence of Paul’s instruction to the church in Ephesians 4:11–16. God has given us pastors and teachers to equip us for the work of service toward the building up of the body until we attain unity, knowledge of Christ, and the maturity that “belongs to the fullness of Christ.” The work of those appointed by Christ to shepherd the flock joins with the members of the body by speaking the truth in love to one another, growing together, with each contributing to the other’s growth and usefulness in service. No solos here! We’re partners in growth and maturity, which means that in addition to the elders pastoring us, we’ll be receiving from our fellow sojourners. Talking about killing our pride and self-dependence! Yet that’s at the heart of pastoral work and aim for the church.
5. Regularly check your teachability. Pride constantly gets in the way of being pastored. We think that we don’t need the exhortation or the sermon or the admonition or even the gentle encouragement offered by the pastors. We’re beyond that, we think. Our pastors might be young enough to be our children or grandchildren! Yet as long as we fail at living with a teachable spirit, we fail at being shepherded. When we fail there, we fail to grow and contribute to the unity of the church. The simplest definition of disciple is “learner.” In a big sense, that’s what we are as Christians: we’re learners learning together from those appointed by Christ for our good, so that we might live together in Christ.
6. Consider those with whom you will spend eternity by giving attention to growth, relationships, obedience, unity, and joy. While pastors deal with temporal issues, the main part of the work stretches into eternity. Pastors shepherd the flock so that the church grows in grace, manifests the power of the gospel in relationships, walks in obedience to Christ, manifests the glory of God in its unity, and lives in the unfettered joy of Jesus. The receiving end of pastoring helps us toward that grand goal that’s really not an end, but a continuation of what’s gotten started here by the grace of God in Jesus’ redemptive work. We will live together eternally so get a head start through being pastored toward that day.
It takes grace to pastor a church. But it also takes grace to be pastored. Being pastored goes against the natural tendencies of the flesh. We need the Lord to work deeply in us so that we learn to receive what he has provided through those appointed to shepherd us in Christ. Let’s battle the goat tendencies of stubbornness and noncooperation! Let’s embrace the willingness to follow, humble submission, a not-arrived attitude, corporate mind, teachable heart, and consciousness toward eternity that characterizes being pastored.
1) They're more about tolerance and feelings then they are about Scripture.
2) However, their "tolerance" doesn't extend to Calvinists
[ more to come - feel free to check back as the list grows and don't forget "I love you guys." ]
KUDOS to "Preacher's Wife" who in a non bitter, non angry way makes some nice points.
"Hmmm, these documents make it seem as though being Calvinist is the ultimate evil. I think the problem is more authoritarianism often coupled with youth. Most of the red flags have more to do with character than theology. Also, their descriptions of “Traditional” versus “Extreme Calvinism” ignore the more moderate Calvinism that was taught in my reformed Baptist church growing up. Or even just a middle of the road approach that my husband and I have, There is a definite tension in the Bible between free will and not, but that second document paints everything so black and white.
We would never sign such a specific statement of belief either, unless the rest of the church had to sign one as well. I don’t pretend to have theology all figured out, but I also don’t believe anyone else does. That document would also tempt me to be more secretive about my beliefs, since any sort change or questioning could lead to us lose our job and our home. Maybe it’s because I’m on the opposite side of the clergy/laity divide, but I could see this document being used aggressively and abusively towards the preacher. But, in our denomination the preacher often has the least amount of power compared to the elders – the preacher is just the employee while the elders are the board of directors.
I believe there’s abuse and authoritarianism within churches. And I don’t agree with reformed theology or even what the evangelical world is doing generally. I’m just not convinced that the problem is strictly with Calvinism, as these documents seem to apply." Her comment is not representative of much of the anger and bile spewed out on TWW's blog.
I saw this written about the progressive left, I fear it too easily fits the Christian left.
"The most pernicious aspect of this evolution of the [ Christian ] left, is how it seems to be changing people, and how rapidly since the [ advent of T.W.W.] .
I have been dwelling on this Nietzsche quote for almost six months now, 'He who fights with monsters, should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.' How easy is it for ordinary humans to commit atrocious acts? History teaches us it’s pretty damn easy when you are BLINDED TO YOUR OWN HYPOCRISY. When you believe you are morally superior, [ to conservative Evangelicals ] when you have dehumanized those you disagree with [ John Piper, Mark Dever, Al Mohler, Lig Duncan et al], you can justify almost anything. In a particularly vocal part of the [ Christian ] left, justification for dehumanizing and committing [ libelous ] violence against those on the [ Evangelical right ] right has long since begun. " __________ Everyday there are fresh, libelous comments on T.W.W. smearing men and women they do not know, have never met, and profaning them with ad hominem attacks which never appear to be reined in. SO, T.W.W.'s witness to a lot of us is that the blog and commenters are angry, bitter people claiming to be believers whom, after reading their comments, you'd feel uneasy sharing a cup of coffee with lest they attack you after you left. Are there problems with the church? OF COURSE. There's always been problems with the church, there will ALWAYS be problems of the church but letting commenters libel men and women they DO NO KNOW is simply sinful. Until a serious attempt to rein in the commenters is seen, one has to believe that Dee and Deb are possibly just as angry and bitter as the commenters themselves. Ladies, you can stop it if you really wish, otherwise I'll never believe it is not your intent to bludgeon with verbal clubs Godly men and women [ far from perfect but none of them claim that ] with whom you disagree. Stop the ad hominem attacks and maybe a lot of us who no longer listen will at least give your concerns serious attention. But until then, not so much. Those claiming to be seeing monsters under every Evangelical rock are becoming monsters themselves.
Most recent post by the good ladies of T.W.W. let's a former member of a church she and her husband attended and participated with share her displeasure over the changes her church went thru. They have now left and found the [ ideal ] church where the sun always shines, the membership is ever delightful and the pastor is perfect. dryly. [ Get back to me in a few years ]
TWW titled it "Church Takeover Success." Of interest this "takeover" occurred over the course of 6 years and included many, many meetings where directions were explained, people were given the opportunity of input and there were votes. This was the exact opposite of a stealth takeover. It was always in plain sight.
Some people didn't like the changes and left the church - [ surprise ] The writer doesn't suggest anybody was shunned for leaving, they apparently weren't.
It would appear this church followed the pattern of the Southern Baptist resurgence where the SBC decided to return to its Biblical roots. It was a long painful process for the SBC but it has survived and moved on. This church's leadership also decided to move in that direction. It has also been painful for some and probably good for others.
LIKE all organizations; change is or can be painful. Old members leave, new members join. Life goes on.
If you are attending a church which is taking a more conservative theological turn and you are unhappy, remember, you can always leave and a] start your own church or b] there is a dying mainline church near you that would covet your attendance and financial giving.
Amid the decades-long decline in mainline Protestantism in North America, researchers in Canada recently found an “elusive sample” of congregations whose growth has bucked the trend.
The key characteristic these exceptional Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and United churches had in common? Evangelical theology.
MARK DEVER continues to be attacked by Wartburgwatch. They truly despise him.
They have no problem allowing comments to appear such as this by "Velour."
"I wonder how Mark Dever at Capitol Hill Baptist Church/9Marks would score on a psychological test? He seems to have the hallmarks of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder that besets a large number of clergy." As far as I know, Velour is neither a psychiatrist or psychologist but like most commenters, she is quick to the psycho-analysis of anybody who holds to Evangelical orthodoxy, such as the importance of protecting the flock through the appropriate use of church discipline. She has given her own psychological diagnosis of Dr. Dever, whom she does not know, has never met. Frankly, it's libelous but TWW doesn't care. The comment will NOT be removed by either Dee, Deb or their husbands. _________ Here's a post IX Marks actually sent out to Facebook May 2017
When should you leave a church?
All of us will, at times, be called to endure humbly a leader’s mistakes and sins. But if you find yourself in a church where the leadership is characteristically abusive, you should flee. Flee to protect your discipleship, to protect your family, to set a good example for the members left behind, and to serve non-Christian neighbors by not lending credibility to the church’s ministry.
How do you recognize abusive leadership? Paul requires two witnesses for a charge to be leveled against an elder (1 Tim. 5:19), probably because he knows that leaders will be charged with infelicities more often than others, often unfairly.
That said, abusive churches and Christian leaders characteristically:
– Make dogmatic prescriptions in places where Scripture is silent.
– Rely on intelligence, humor, charm, guilt, emotions, or threats rather than on God’s Word and prayer (see Acts 6:4).
– Play favorites.
– Punish those who disagree.
– Employ extreme forms of communication (tempers, silent treatment).
– Recommend courses of action which always, somehow, improves the leader’s own situation, even at the expense of others.
– Seldom do good deeds in secret.
– Seldom encourage.
– Seldom give the benefit of the doubt.
– Emphasize outward conformity, rather than repentance of heart.
– Preach, counsel, disciple, and oversee the church with lips that fail to ground everything in what Christ has done in the gospel and to give glory to God.
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina – A Roman Catholic nun from Japan has been arrested and charged on suspicion of helping priests sexually abuse children at a school for youths with hearing disabilities in Argentina, authorities said.
Kosaka Kumiko was also charged with physically abusing the students at the Antonio Provolo Institute for children with hearing impairment in northwestern Mendoza province.
Local media showed the 42-year-old nun in handcuffs and wearing her habit and a bullet-proof vest as she was escorted by police to a court hearing. Kumiko, who was born in Japan but has Argentine citizenship, denied any wrongdoing during the eight-hour hearing late Thursday.
Authorities say that Kumiko lived at the Provolo Institute from 2004-2012. She had been on the run for about a month before she turned herself in this week.
The case against the nun was launched after a former student accused of making her wear a diaper to cover up a hemorrhage after she was allegedly raped by priest Horacio Corbacho.
Corbacho, fellow priest Nicola Corradi and three other men were arrested last year after they were charged with sexually abusing at least two dozen students at the Provolo Institute. They are being held at a jail in Mendoza and have not spoken publicly since the arrest. If found guilty, the accused face 10 to 50 years in prison.
Corradi had earlier been accused in Italy of abusing students at the Provolo Institute in Verona, a notorious school for the deaf where hundreds of children are believed to have been sexually assaulted over the years by two dozen priests and religious brothers.
Advocates for clerical sex abuse have expressed anger that Corradi wasn't sanctioned by the Vatican and allegedly went on to abuse children in Pope Francis' native Argentina.
Victims and prosecutors say the anal and vaginal rapes, fondling and oral sex allegedly committed by the priests took place in the bathrooms, dorms, garden and a basement at the school in Lujan de Cuyo,........
TERRIBLE THINGS were done to disabled children.
Applying Wartburg Watch logic; these people must secretly be Complimentarian Evangelicals who read C.J. Mahaney and listen to John Piper and John McArthur. Their favorite websites must be the Gospel Coalition, Together for the Gospel or the homesite for the SBC. Otherwise these things wouldn't have happened.[ sarc ]
ON THE OTHERHAND -if you follow the teaching of Piper, McArthur, Mahaney, Sproul et al., these men will remind you that satan is loosed in the world and the only answer is found in the Word of God. NONE of these people think abuse or sexual abuse is okay under any circumstance. Still the commenters and ladies of Warburg seem to despise them. Obviously, they don't recognize the real enemy.
The TWW "discernment" blog is NOT discerning. They can't tell the good guys from the bad guys.
In the New Testaments there are verses such as this:
[M]an ...is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. (1Corinthians 11:7-9) The women of T.W.W. reject this verse of course - it stands completely against the feminist narrative of egalitarianism. "SPORTIN' LIFE would undoubtedly agree.
[Porgy and Bess]
It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
De things dat yo' liable to read in de Bible
It ain't necessarily so
Li'l David was small but oh my
Li'l David was small but oh my
He fought big Goliath who lay down and dieth
Li'l David was small but oh my
Oh Jonah he lived in de whale
Oh Jonah he lived in de whale
For he made his home in dat fish's abdomen
Oh Jonah he lived in de whale
Li'l Moses was found in a stream
Li'l Moses was found in a stream
He floated on water 'til ole Pharaoh's daughter
She fished him she says from that stream
It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
Dey tell all you chillun de debble's a villain
But 'taint necessarily so
To get into Hebben don' snap for a sebben
Live clean, don' have no fault
Oh I takes de gospel whenever it's pos'ble But wid a grain of salt
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
But who calls dat livin' when no gal'll give in
To no man what's nine hundred years
I'm preachin' dis sermon to show
It ain't nessa, ain't nessa
Ain't nessa, ain't nessa
It ain't necessarily so.
TWW is upset with Joe Carter - primarily because he's a part of the Gospel Coalition, not just what he wrote. As noted many, many times, T.W.W. is opposed to historic, orthodox Christianity which the Gospel Coalition represents. T.G.C. thinks the Bible is inerrant in it's autographs and quite easy to understand if you take it at its word. T.W.W. believes in feminism which is opposed to the simple reading of so much of the New Testament.
So anyhow Joe points out how Broken people can become wolves that go after the sheep. He did NOT write this post with T.W.W. or other "discernment blogs" in mind. But TWW and its commenters saw themselves in the mirror and attacked.
The comments are telling because the most angry, most attacking comments are written by people who write comments on T.W.W.
Dee says she's going to pray for Joe.
I have prayed for Dee that she will recognize that the blog she and Deb author simply invites victims and angry women to become even angrier, ever bitterer and deepens their sense of victimhood. Nobody gets health by pursuing anger, bitterness or victimhood. It ain't gonna happen.
Here's what Dee and Deb could do. Feel free to point out issues in the church but leave the ad hominem attacks against flesh and blood people behind. Everytime T.W.W. writes a post pointing out a real or potential problem, but then attacks a conservative Evangelical convinces me the "problem" is just the excuse to attack the people who deeply revere and hold to the wisdom of Scripture.
You don't agree with all that John Piper believes? Fine but stop the personal attacks. As I mentioned before, Dee and Deb act like the "Mean Girls" attacking those with whom they disagree. It's one thing to be a Mean Girl when you're in your teens, but when you're playing the role of Mean Girls and you're in your 50s, it is really time to mature.
They continue to follow Saul Alinski's rule 12: 12. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.“ Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
So, read Joe Carter's column. You'll immediately be able to "discern" the women who comment on T.W.W. on a regular basis. They will be the bitter/angry ones, the ones who appear to be advocates of the Alinski program.
On Good Friday, the Wartburg women post about how much God loves His children and that the emphasis of Easter is not the forgiveness of sinful men [ and they do mean men - not women - dryly ] but how much we are loved by God.
Now there is nothing new in this and many, many others [ including the dreaded Calvinists ] have made this argument.
But, this is Wartburgwatch after all and their number one priority is NOT to assure its readership that God loves them; no, no, no, - their number one priority is to blast the conservative theologians who would dare suggest, as Kevin De Young does, that Easter is about the forgiveness of sinful men that we might be in a right relationship to a righteous and holy God.
How Dare he - dryly.
Men and women actually look at their sinfulness differently. Men have and do, on occasion, commit suicide due to their horror of their own sinfulness? Women? That almost never appears to be the case.
I think men are more likely to be horrified by the evil that resides within them then women. If you ask a man how he is sinful; he can generally spell it out in great detail. Women seem less inclined to view their sins with despair. Are women less sinful then men? Absolutely not. But men and women clearly have a different view of personal righteousness/sinfulness - IMHO.
And then there's this;
Luke 18:9-14New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable:10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
I think the majority of TWW commenters might be less than impressed by the sinner who pounded his chest and begged for God mercy versus the Pharisee who made a comparison and found the sinner wanting. After all, the sinner was basically spouting "worm theology." The T.W.W. blog queens would not approve.
FYI - a paraphrase from a book I read many, many years ago - profound opening statement went something like this.
Mankind is both the glory and the scum of the earth - how much is the glory and how much the scum?
[ more to come - I'm at work on this very early yet splendid Saturday morning. ]
[ For those of you who would like to accuse me of stealing from the company by writing this post and on company time; I'm actually a contractor. They only pay me if I produce something so it's no skin off their nose if I chose to write a post versus produce a report - for which I am paid. So there]