Wartburgwatch attacks Ravi Zacharias; commenter attacks 72 year old Dorothy Patterson

RAVI has TEN honorary doctorates.   TEN!
____________-

Dweebs like to emphasize their MBA -  [ look at me ]

But they are more than willing to attack an conservative Evangelical who has TEN honorary doctorates.

Frankly, I'd be blest with one.

I'm more than happy to refer to Ravi as "Dr. Zacharias."
______________

FYI - interpreting the degrees:

B.S. "Bull shovelings"
M.S. "More of the same"
Ph.D. "Piled Higher and Deeper"

Wartburgwatch attacks Biblical counseling exhibiting their own particular biases.

At the end of Dee's hit piece she writes this:

" I would be interested in hearing from any folks who have undergone counseling at Timberlake. I would also love to see any confidentiality agreements, counseling descriptors, etc. from counseling centers which are part of the BCM.  Such correspondence will be held in strict confidentiality. Only my co-editor and the Guy Behind the Curtain know about such correspondence and we have tight lips."

DEAR COMMENTER - 

1)You would be naive to think she wouldn't report you to the proper authorities [ "strict confidentiality" ]  if you were so unwise as to inform Dee, Deb and her husband of your sins that might indeed violate the laws of God and mankind.  DEE actually needs to re-write the paragraph.  For instance, do NOT mention that you have been accused of abuse of another.  She'll be on the phone to the authorities faster than you can say C.J. Mahaney.

2)  She would be pleased if you ratted out your church or its leadership - particularly if it is a conservative Evangelical institution.  Are you absolutely sure you want to rat-out your pastor or leadership?  Perhaps you do; many TWW commenters appear to feel that way.  At the very least, though they wouldn't rat out their church; they'd be glad to have you rat out yours.

3)  Academic snobbery is in place at T.W.W.  If your education is not from a TWW approved institution, you will be sneered at.  That's the way it is at TWW.

4)  TWW has it in for Mark Hager - whom they do not know.  As noted, they have already denigrated his education.  

But you know what?  I think having a background in law-enforcement is worth more than a Master's degree from Duke Univ.  Let me gently remind my fellow commenters - having alpha-bet soup behind your name in no way guarantees that you are actually wise.

5)  It has always amazed me that so many commenters at TWW seems to have put a halo on secular counselors.  Hats off to Okrapod - who is a retired physician - who has noted more than a few times that the secular mental health profession is full of people with issues.  

Hats off also to commenter "Daisy" who has also expressed reservation about treatment and meds from the helping profession be they secular or Biblical based upon her own experiences.

____________

My 2 cents:  Great counselors are born - not made but a good secular counselor cannot really offer eternal hope and a Biblical counselor can.  

Choose wisely my friends.  A competent secular mental health professional will never denigrate Christianity.  If they do, run, don't walk, to the nearest office exit.  On the other hand: There are Biblical counselors who need to pursue other areas of interest.  God did not gift them to be competent and compassionate counselors.

And about the psych meds: like all other meds, there are none that are perfect and they all always trade-offs, as in all meds.  I am NOT OPPOSEDLast year I made the decision to seek counseling. I read the various profiles of counselors who were licensed professionals (usually MSW) and narrowed it down to only those who had positive reviews from former patients. After reading all the reviews, I went with a counselor that had 30 years experience in the field. She made it known up front that she was a trained professional AND a Christian. That was important to me so I decided she was the one I would opt for.
The first session went quite well. Actually very well. I had filled out a very thorough form asking detailed questions about my mental and emotional state of mind. She diagnosed me with PTSD and spoke of a care plan that would be implemented. I left her office with high hopes that day.
Fast forward to the second session. In the first half I spoke about the issues with which I had been struggling as a continuation from the first session. She sat quietly behind her desk and listened without saying much at all. When I was finished talking, she stood up, walked over to a small chalkboard next to the couch. She began scribbling a verse from the Bible in a most emphatic and determined way, almost as if she was irritated. After she finished writing the verse, she read it out loud and began preaching AT me. I emphasize the word AT. I was stunned. She had changed from a patient, understanding counselor into a full-blown preacher. I was frozen in my thoughts and body, not sure what to do. When I got up from sitting, she grabbed me and told me she was going to pray over me. It was a very Pentecostal styled prayer. After she finished praying the session was over. I never went back to her for counseling again.
Turned out she was nothing like the impression I had from reading all of her credentials and reviews on line. Anyone can have a negative counseling experience, even when the counselor has degrees from accredited universities and is licensed. to psych meds; I'm just cautious as to their effectiveness over time.

It will be interesting to see who TWW attacks in the upcoming posts.

____________

Bridget [ naively ] said:

Standards do apply in the “secular” counseling world. I’m sure that Biblical Counselors would argue that they have standards as well, however BC standards are not widely accepted by anyone in the  Standards do apply in the “secular” counseling world. I’m sure that Biblical Counselors would argue that they have standards as well, however BC standards are not widely accepted by anyone in the academic world where there has been years of study and cooperation across varying fields to produce procedures and licensing qualifications to “protect the the patient." 

Come on Bridget - get a grip.  It's not like that at all.  It's a crap-shoot in the secular counseling world.

Sad comment by "Darlene"

Last year I made the decision to seek counseling. I read the various profiles of counselors who were licensed professionals (usually MSW) and narrowed it down to only those who had positive reviews from former patients. After reading all the reviews, I went with a counselor that had 30 years experience in the field. She made it known up front that she was a trained professional AND a Christian. That was important to me so I decided she was the one I would opt for.

The first session went quite well. Actually very well. I had filled out a very thorough form asking detailed questions about my mental and emotional state of mind. She diagnosed me with PTSD and spoke of a care plan that would be implemented. I left her office with high hopes that day.

Fast forward to the second session. In the first half I spoke about the issues with which I had been struggling as a continuation from the first session. She sat quietly behind her desk and listened without saying much at all. When I was finished talking, she stood up, walked over to a small chalkboard next to the couch. She began scribbling a verse from the Bible in a most emphatic and determined way, almost as if she was irritated. After she finished writing the verse, she read it out loud and began preaching AT me. I emphasize the word AT. I was stunned. She had changed from a patient, understanding counselor into a full-blown preacher. I was frozen in my thoughts and body, not sure what to do. When I got up from sitting, she grabbed me and told me she was going to pray over me. It was a very Pentecostal styled prayer. After she finished praying the session was over. I never went back to her for counseling again.

Turned out she was nothing like the impression I had from reading all of her credentials and reviews on line. Anyone can have a negative counseling experience, even when the counselor has degrees from accredited universities and is licensed.

___________

That's painful.  I hope Darlene finds someone more coepesthetic.

The DEEBS attack Tim Keller

Dr. Tim Keller had the temerity to suggest that pastors of large churches  are going to function, in one of their roles, as an administrator.  Dee recounts attending a couple of the  many, many churches she has attended and left, where she believed the pastor didn't actually know all his congregants, her included.  [ Ah the humanity - dryly ]
__________

Is there a precedent?

Number of disciples of Jesus:  TWELVE
Number of followers:  Thousands.

Jesus had a history, in his ministry, of removing himself, and the disciples from the crowds after a time being.  Did he shepherd these thousands individually?  Only in a few specific cases.

But what about the disciples themselves after Jesus had been resurrected.

The First Seven Deacons Appointed

6 Now in these days, as the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose by the Greek-speaking Jews against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.

 2 So the twelve summoned the community of disciples and said, “It is not desirable that we neglect the word of God to serve tables. 3 So, brothers, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and wisdom, whom we will put in charge of this need. 4 But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 And the statement pleased the whole group, and they chose Stephen (a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit), and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus (a convert from Antioch), 6 whom they stood before the apostles. And they prayed and placed their hands on them.

7 And the word of God kept spreading, and the number of disciples in Jerusalem was increasing greatly, and a large number of priests began obeying the faith.

HERE the disciples did not see their responsibility as being the shepherds to individuals and their needs, not to serve the tables.  They administered, by appointing deacons, and then focused upon writing and teaching the Word.

__________

Final note: there are excellent small churches and excellent mega-churches.  Choose one but don't complain about the other.

TWW followers: Are you a borderline personality?

https://thoughtcatalog.com/carrie-lynne-davis/2013/08/10-things-you-discover-about-yourself-when-youre-diagnosed-with-borderline-personality-disorder/

T.W.W. insists upon conformity to the secular culture.

FBC Jefferson City Calls a Female Pastor and is Ousted from the Tennessee Baptist Convention.

How should Jefferson City respond?

[Answer: join the vast but dying crew of Mainline Churches where many churches now have ONLY female staff.  There is YET no law requiring you to be SBC.  However, if Dee and Deb had their way, there WOULD be a law requiring you to have the role of senior pastor/shepherd open to women.  Dee and Deb have more than a few times indicated their belief that the church shouldn't hesitate to face the wrath of the courts for wrong think. ]

-------

Note to the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church - T.W.W. believes you shouldn't limit your priests to being men.   HOWEVER, since you're not Evangelical, they're not going to say anything.

3 Orthodox views on why women cannot be priests; TWW continues their attack on John Piper

http://www.pravmir.com/article_503.html

Christ is the Incarnate Logos, the Second Person of the Trinity. Christ was incarnate as a man. Why? The Holy Trinity is inherently neither male nor female. The Trinity is spirit. However, God the Father has revealed Himself as male. Why? The Father creates all things visible and invisible. The male is the source of creation. The female must be impregnated by the male. As the male is the natural source of creation, the supernatural source is revealed as Father. Christ, the Son, is eternally begotten of the Father. He is the image of the Father. When He is begotten in time, He reveals himself as a male.

TWW and Roy Moore

T.W.W. is concerned, as they should be.  But because of their dislike of conservative Evangelical males they refused to reference two of them - Denny Burk and Al Mohler.  I'll reference them for you.
_______

As Christians, our first response to such allegations should not be a political calculus. Our first response should be horrified compassion for those traumatized by sexual misconduct. And that response should also include moral clarity and consistency. The balance of the United States Senate is not our chief concern. Our witness is. More than anything, we must be concerned to bear witness to the gospel of Jesus Christ and to its transforming power. That witness is undermined when God’s truth is set aside for any reason, much more for worldly political ends.

Yesterday before these most recent allegations came forth, Albert Mohler made the following remarks on The Briefing:

We also understand a particular responsibility to defend the defenseless and to speak up for those who need that defense, and we must make very clear that predatory sexual behavior, especially predatory sexual behavior addressed to a child, to a minor, is absolutely heinous, reprehensible, and cannot be accepted by any morally sane society. Even in our sexually confused age, we should be thankful for the fact that there is at least enough residual moral sense in the American people that they understand that any contact by an adult male with a minor female, or for that matter you could even change the genders, it’s absolutely wrong, immoral, and unacceptable. So we should at least state that about the charges right up front: If indeed the allegations are true, they are genuinely, morally devastating and they should be politically devastating as well.

I couldn’t agree more. Every person who names Jesus as Lord should agree as well.

_________

A comment about politicians:

Jonathan Adler makes a persuasive case that Moore is a constitutional illiterate, but it’s not like that would set Moore apart much in the World’s Greatest Deliberative Body.

The truth is, the Senate is just awful — and the House is no better — because it’s full of politicians. The real travesty here isn’t that we might send another clown to join the clown show. It’s that the clown show has so much power, and so little accountability, when it’s doing things that are a lot more serious than groping.

And no, this isn’t good, it’s terrible. It’s more evidence of our decline. And I feel bad for having to point it out, again.

inShare

Kudos Dee and Deb

Most recent post reviews a book, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse - which they like.

But what is truly amazing, they do not take the opportunity of the book review post to take a gratuitous swipe at a conservative Evangelical.  That's the first time in my memory.

KUDOS Dee and Deb!

Wartburgwatch attacks Al Mohler

This who the Deebs are, this is what they do.    The best of feminine Christianity - dryly.
____________

The Evangelical conservatives, such as Mohler, Piper, MacArthur, Dever are bombarded by criticisms on Wartburgwatch as being unfeeling, narcissistic, egotistical etc.

It makes me wonder, what percentage of Wartburgians would be pleased to see them undergo trauma and even death?

T.W.W. presents themselves as a blog of compassion.

"Lydia -
Joe Carter doesn’t have a clue. ERLC. Russ Moors. All frauds. All they want is camera time and money to promote themselves as “thought leaders”.

Flannery O'Connor quote:
" In the absence of faith, we govern by tenderness [compassion ] and tenderness leads to the gas chamber."

I think, in Wartburgians heart of hearts, many, such as Lydia,  would be pleased, due to "compassion:, * to see the conservative Evangelicals sent to the gas chamber.  They are convinced, in their own minds,  that these men are the ruination of the church and society.

*Social Justice Warriors

Those wonderful atheists; if only Christians would learn from them

A frequent commenter on T.W.W. started a blog and has more than a few times suggested the church would benefit if it learned from the atheists.  Frankly, I always thought that was very, very naïve. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/11/07/im-an-atheist-but-i-had-to-walk-away-from-the-toxic-side-of-online-atheism/?utm_term=.85f30b83f795

Yeah, I don't think the church has anything to learn from atheists.

And you despise Biblical Counseling? Think secular counseling superior?

http://nypost.com/2017/11/03/social-worker-accused-of-keeping-mental-patient-as-sex-slave/

The Tragedy in Texas

"How could an all-powerful and all-loving God, allow such evil to take place? There are those who have suggested perhaps it’s an indication that God really isn’t in control of the universe. For instance, Rabbi Harold Kushner famously argued in his book When Bad Things Happen to Good People that God is simply doing the best he can with the circumstances—and some circumstances are just too big for God to handle. This assertion, however, is a subversion of the biblical teaching concerning God. It is a repudiation of the God of the Bible. The Bible is clear: God is in control of the entire universe, there isn’t one atom or a molecule outside of his control. If there is, then we are doomed."  Al Mohler